Відео

i really dont have an issue playing/practicing. This was a reference for those who have the RD but are considering replacing it with the Fantom 8.

@@paulmapp8306 fair enough, I’m looking into the swap but I’m more concerned about if the keys feel the same on the fantom 8 to the RD 2000 also polyphony issues are a concern.

@@MikeHenrick1 keybed is identical. since the fantoms EX upgrade, so are the V-Piano sounds..... This comparison is pre that obviously. Ive not once run into polyphony issues with the Fantom, but its relatively easy to avoid if you know how its allocated. Having said that I dont sequence with my Fantom - so Im only ever using 2 or 3 sounds at once (either layered or split) so its far harder to run into issues....unless your using the ACB and original models - they are poly hungry.

​@MikeHenrick1 I used to repair these for a living. If I remember correctly, these were the same keyed. Don't quote me, but that's what I remember. Roland used the same 88 keybed in most of their 88 keyboards.

@@jawsxx8683 yes. the PHa50 was designed for the RD2000 then used int he F8 (though in my demo its the Fantom 7 not 8 so that is a synth action - hence using the RDs keybed for both sound engines). tis is why the aftertouch on the F8 isnt good - it was a retro fit to a bed not designed to have an AT strip. Its not in the ideal position.

I like them. The P90s is why I bought he guitar - I had some custom would HB sized ones on a PRS SE22 that won me over. I have 2 sets for the TA - one of the orginals and one of their noiseless. There both decent - the noiseless ones are a tab more polite and smoother. They suits more gain (due to noiseless and the smoother sound) - the originals are better clean and a little break up - raunch I guess.

???? No - its the perfect way to compare as your using the same keybed for both synths. Every keybed has a different feel, velocity curve etc - using different beds comparing the same engine (is using the RDs graded hammer action for the RD, and the Fantoms semi weighted synth action for the Fantom) introduces differences - and quite substantial ones. the point of using the same bed is to take out any variables. Using midi has no downsides.

not really. Leslie speakers are all mono...... stereo can give phase issues. I run mono into a desk normally with synths anyway.

not that Im aware of -- There pretty much a hammond clone company.

If I remember when I get some time at the weekend. My current rig is a complex midi routing (and its expanded since the video).... I have the RD2000, a Fantom 7, a Peak, a Virus, a Viscount Legend Expander, a Prophet 6, and OB6, an Iridium Keyboard, a Polybrute, a TR8s drum machine and a HAPAX hardware sequencer. I use a Conductive Labs MRCC router (will programable routings with patch memory - and easy on the fly switching). I can play any of those sound sources, from any of the keybeds, uniquely on every zone (for RD, fantom and virus - and the bo timbral layers of polybrute, Iridium and the EXP) - can record them all separately into Hapax, and Hapax can play each uniquely. BUT a simple twin Midi DIN or USB link between RD and Fantom - will work with those two boards. The setup is slightly different depending if you use DIN or USB - but I can do either (or both).

Supernatural is an old technology. Only intedra 7 and fa seriies have it in a core sense, and no new product woll fearure it bar a few legecy parches. Roland have included a few stripped down (in terms of editing) legacy patches as they tend to do, however its not a key part of fantom. These pianist are the v piano engine, and there are also pcm based pianos using the bew zencore engine.

@@paulmapp8306 The Jupiter 80 and 50 also have it very heavy and Roland touts the fact that the Fantom 0 series has supernatural pianos because it lacks the V engine. I just wish they had implemented it better than they did is all I am saying.

@Jeremy Moss imeant integra and fa ate the only production boards featuring sn as key. Yes f0 doesn't have v piano but it does have zencore pianos. They are arguably better than sn as they have new samples though without articulations. I get your point, but Roland want to ditch sn totally which they can't do if they keep including it fully implemented in new boards. At this point it will be a few asic legacy patches for nostalgia as the jv and d50 sounds are.

No, you can't change how hard the keys are, that's mechanical. You can change the vocity response curve so you don't have to play they as fast to get the higher velocity notes. Light is better. The keybed (same on fantom and rd) is closer to a real piano than most. Mise hammer actions on synths don't come close. Ultimately it's impossible to get a bed that gives realistic piano feel that you can also play synth on prooerly (you can pkay though, it comes with practice)... this is WHY many synths have a non piano action, a hybrid. There's a reason most players have 2 boards... one for piano feel and one for synth (or organ). If you are only going to have one, you need to choose if you want piano or synth feel and put up with the compromise for the other.... or get a board with a bed that can be used for both, but isn't ideal for either.

Regards the setting, it's worth trying. While it doesn't change how hard those keys are, it does change how it feels to play. It might be enough. To change, hit the menu button (left of screen, bottom button), select system. There are tabs now showing on the left of the screen. Press keyboard. Select keyboard velocity curve. It's medium by default. Change that to light. You can go lighter still if that's not enough, the tab below says velocity curve offset - at 0 by default but you can go from -10 (lightest) to +10 (heaviest). This is a micro adjustment between the main light, med and heavy. So ranges go light - 10 to light +10, then med -10 to med + 10, then heaven -10 to heavy +10 in a continuous gradual change.

@@paulmapp8306 Hey! Thanks SO much! I'll be sure to try it out next time I'm at Guitar Center! I always find that so wierd, that the Fantom 8 is a synthesizer, yet they made the keys as hard to play as a grand piano.. I get they want to accommodate the piano players mostly, but then the snyth players are left with building their finger muscles for a year just to akwardly play synth on grand piano keys, an experience they paid $4K for.. it seems to not make much sense.. the best idea for synth players would be to by a second synth board with light keys, then send the Fantom 8 to it in Midi and call it a day, but.. what a hassle I think. An expensive one too. Btw, I have a second question, hope you dont mind. Does the RD 2000 have lighter keys than the Roland Fantom 8? If so, by how much? Do you feel it would allow someone to play fast synth stuff up and down without fighting with the keys like on the Fantom 8? I basically need a keyboard with 8 faders on the left, and 8 knobs where ever, a ribbon, a tone stick, but prederably 2 tone wheels, and prederably aftertouch, because I want to connect rompler modules via midi to my keyboard and layer them, or just.. have option of what to play, whithout having to deal with a computer, and raise and lower or mute each of the volumes using the faders. So I was looking at the Motif XF8.. but I don't know if those keys feel hard or not, and Guitar Center doesn't stock them too often for me to try.. So I'm now considering the RD2000, Yamaha Montage 8, Kurzweil PC4 88 keys, Kurzweil K2700, and the Fantom 08. If you can rank them, which do you think has the lightest keybed for fast synth stuff, or playing a fast violin? Thank you SO much in advance. I'm really in the dark here of which keybeds feels the lightest, as I haven't gotten a chance to head to Guitar Center in a bit to try them out in person.

@Not Neal the rd2000 has the same keybed. It was designed for piano for that board, and used in the f8. 88 note boards almost always have piano weighted keys..as that's why 88 notes. SERIOUSLY consider the f7.... 76 notes isn't a problem if you don't play full range piano, it's synth weighted, and the aftertouch while not great, does work. Aftertouch on the f8 is almost unusable.... the bed wasnt designed for it (rd2k doesn't have it) as it's designed for piano, so there is compromise on where the strip could be placed, and how the keys strike it.

@Not Neal the montage has slightly lighter keys. They are designed not so much for pure piano playing. Feel wise you may well prefer those (though the fantom 7 would suit better, it's no good for pure piano). It's not as good at synth dounds, but is better at orchestral. It's not as good a ui for integrating outboard gear as fantom is...it teal shines there, but it can do it. In fact a fantom 8 and montage 6//7 (or modx it's the same engine and lighter) is the perfect twin board rig.

thankyou.

I second that!

How do I do this? I have never experimented with the sound. Where does it take us through this process? I know this pretty basic I want to improve the piano sound with heavy to med touch and beautiful tone that inspires me.

Tried it on the Aco Grand1 combined with above settings by @miscka0 and this is great!

Fair enough - I dont like using direct recordings in honesty - as unless you aim is to record they dont help. Getting the sound in the room is more important to me for comparison, but each to their own there Id also say that the recording does not sound horrible, and they sound great in teh room as well... it was a decent condenser mic used and Im running through Neumann speakers.

The Fantom 8 and rd2000 keybed is identical, it's the same one used in both. The pads on fantom arnt drum pads, there not velocity sensitive... they have several functions dependant on mode, and you can trigger drum sounds with them but not dynamically. I do like fantom for lots of reasons, but if all ypu need is piano and a rhythm unit, your better with the rd and a separate unit. Tr8s is nice, digitakt and drum brute also. Or go full on groove box with mc 101/707 or mpc one/live.

@@paulmapp8306 thanks for the response. Tough decision. Can you get all of the Roland Cloud retro synths on the RD? I didn’t mention it in my original comment but I also write songs and use a lot of those old synths. Are they much more customizable in the Fantom? Basically just assumed that the Fantom is more of a Jack of all trades that would help more in my songwriting and synth work, while still having the killer stage piano stuff that you’d find in the RD. That said I do all of my recording in Logic and have absolutely no use for the recording features on a Fantom…

@@whwh7339 The RD200 has no synth models. It has quite a lot of sounds BUT they are sample based ones not modelling - and there is very limited editability. Its a stage piano not a synth. Fantom and JupiterX are the flagship Roland keyboards at present - though they share 95% of functionality. The Jx is the pure synth - it has a few extra models, more dedicated controls, and included the iarpegiator. The Fantom s more workstation (still synth biased though) - it has a touch screen 9which I actually find better for patch design) and less hard controls (though it still has plenty). It has fewer models (4 free ones, and some others chargeable - some not available art all yet) BUT includes the sequencer, sampler, and drum machine stuff that the Jx doesnt. The New Fantom 0 series is almost identical but with less sample/expansion space, smaller scree, few controls (but not much) no LEDs on the controls BUT its cheaper and lighter - the engine/s are the same. The Fantom 08s keybed is not the same as the RD/Fantom 8 though.... Its the older PHa4 not the PHA50 on the other 2. The MC101/7078 have the same zencore engine as both Jupiter and Fantom BUT they dont have the models. Honestly you can do 99% of what the models do just in zencore - the models just have the control layouts of the original synths - and have a few tailored aspects to get closer to the sound of the originals. I dont use the sequencer, or sampler, or drum machine aspect of Fantom. The sounds are great - and as a "master" board its the best available from anyone currently. It used the same zonal system the RD does - so you CAN get that aspect from the RD - but the fantom goes further and has more zones (16 rather than 8). Its a great soft synth controller, or hardware module controller as well as a synth in its own right. The Fantom 8 is heavy.... BUT if its for home/studio use ...honestly Id probably just get the Fantom8. The RD has more edit functions for some sounds (notably the electric pianos which arnt as good on the Fantom) and it has more SN pianos available as packs than Fantom - BUT the Hammond is much better on the Fantom and the synth side isnt even close...

@@paulmapp8306 cheers thanks for the detailed response! Definitely using it for studio only, so Fantom 8 it is. Last question: I’m a fan of the Keyscape vst from Spectrasonics, I’m assuming that the Fantom can be connected to a computer running this VST and can act as a MIDI controller for it?

@@whwh7339 Sure. I dont tend to use VSTs... I just dont gel with the workflow BUT I do have alicias keys, Chery audios modular, Pianoteq and a couple of free VSTS. As long as you set one of the fantoms zones to external (green) or both (yellow) your good (it doesn't transmit midi if set to internal - red)

you have to match the volumes and let one sound stop before switching..... RD2000 doesnt have seemless switching - meaning when you switch the sound your on cuts off and the new sound starts - if your in the middle of a decay, the old sound stops, but if hold (width a pedal or fingers) the new sound starts immediately - and zones are at the volume of the new patch. So - save your programs with the levels you need (to keep them constant) with the zone volume sliders, but also let one sound finish before switching. i have one program per song, and switch between songs which works great BUT Im using multiple boards, so I have enough "key real estate" to allow that across them. If I was JUST using the RD I would be harder (as 4 sounds - those you can add FX to - often isnt enough for a single song).

@@paulmapp8306 Hey, thanks for the swift response. I've tried with matching volumes between programs before and that didn't work. I feel the issue may lie more in the decay and reverb. Maybe alternating zones (for example 1-4 on one patch and then 5-8 on the next), may help. I do notice that in tones such as Stage Piano, if I press the footswitch it will completely cut out the sound. Whereas other patches it will allow the sound to be held without alternation. There are also other programs where I can hold a chord, with multiple zones being used, and nothing alters when switching programs. There's one particular moment in the show where I cant release the chord before changing programs and the increase in volume is very noticeable. Would love to just get to the bottom of it all.

@@miketurnbull4333 VPiano tones wont hold. Others do. Remember zones 5-8 have NO EFFECTS. They can only be applied to 1-4. The problem your having, is that when you hold a note/chord and change patches - the sound changed BUT you keep the volume of the held note until you release it. There is NO WAY round that. you HAVE to let go of they keys before changing. The only way round it for you, is to have the sound your changing to on the same program, different zone (as well as the new patch) - but the same zone as you use on the 2nd patch. Match the volumes of the 2 zones (as its the same sound it would be easy). Hold the spend you need to hold, play the new sound (new zone) then let go of the original sound and swap programs. In theory that would work - but does depend what other sounds you have in each program.

there are more banks you can use.

@@paulmapp8306 Thanks, Anthony. How do I get access to them?

not tried the mojo. ultimately there both great (based on the gemini engine the mojo uses). Its personal preference once you get into the fine details - sonically, functionally and easthetically.

@@paulmapp8306 thanks!

its a full copy - not a pointer plus changes. So if put a program into a scene you can delete the original program and you still have it in the scene. In that way you CAN just look at scenes are more user slots if you want to. Its not what it was designed to do - and not its ideal use, but you certainly could look and use it that way.

@@paulmapp8306 thank you for the added info. But if i edit( and save) the ( edited) sounds on the original version to the same program name ( writing over the original program) which i added to the scene initially will this updated version of the program automatically replace the one that i had originally saved to the same scene? Or do i have to delete the original program from the scene and re save the edited program to the same scene? Thanks!

@@ceciliafoong3032 No - the scene one is a complete copy - its not a reference. Youd need to rep[lace the scene program. That's kind of the point of the scene system,. Its a short term place to store a set list really.

@@paulmapp8306 i see....ok got it! Thanks :))

Thats rather a condescending comment..... Ive been playing and sound designing for 35 years. The point here is to compare a like for like factory sound - that is EXACTLY what I wanted to do. This gives an idea of the HARDWARE differences (as the sound engine is the same) - the DACs, the OP amps etc that colour the sound. Of course I COULD have made them identical, but that just isnt the point of this - which seem to have gone right over your head.

Id also ADD - that being a stage piano means nothing. The V-Piano sounds in the RD are the same engine as on the RD... They SHOULD sound IDENTICAL. What category the "board" is labelled doesn't change that. Hence the point of the vid. Why would you compare different sound engine? they WILL be =different - and at that point you comments would stand up . in this case they dont. I come from a 35 year playing background...and to top it off a 35 year working career in electronics... Unless you have something constructive to add, I think you out of your depth here.

@@paulmapp8306 If the sound engines are the same but the EQ presentation is such that the mids are accentuated on the stage piano's preset, then what you are comparing is just the EQ setting of the factory preset, not the instrument's potential to create the sound you want. If you "COULD have made them identical" then what difference does it make that you have to turn a knob a little one way or another to compensate for hardware differences?

@@paulmapp8306 You don't see why the presets on a stage piano might have an EQ voicing that accentuates certain frequencies, but I'm the one unqualified to have an opinion? LOL ok. But didn't you also state that you "COULD have made them sound identical" by just tweaking the instruments' settings? If so, then what difference do any hardware differences make? Isn't that MY point? Obviously there are hardware differences between a workstation and a stage piano, but if their sounds can be made "identical" then those hardware differences are academic.

@@wulf67 Not quite no. The EQs were both flat. There is no such thing as "eq curve" of a keyboard when no EQ is adjusted.... Its just the sound of the DACs and OP amp. If thats what you actually MEAN - then thats EXACRTLY what I was trying to show..... Im perfectly well aware I could have made them identical.. that wasnt the point of the vid as Ive made clear. Nor is "not making them identical" - or "not making them the sound you want" lazy.. Again that wasnt the point of the vid. To do so would have first been easy, and secondly pointless. This is actually a RARE opportunity to compare exactly the same sound engine, with exactly the same keybed (as the Fantom 8 has the same PHA5 action) in order to actually compare the hardware output stages. I dont think there are any other 2 boards where so much is identical that you can do that on. What you have actually is done, is missed the point oft he vid, and them made derogatory comments that are completely invalid when considering the point of the vid. The POINT is from an engineer POV firstly (as Im an engineer so am curious about such things) and more critically for the many many RD users considering changing to the Fantom BECAUSE its the same keybed and engine. THEY should be aware of the CORE sound differ3ence despite that. Messing with settings to match them is what would have been pointless. Ultimately - even if you thought - ort still think I was being lazy, or making a pointless video - which you are perfectly entitled to do - why post derogatory comments? Thats just rude .... and pointless as well.

Again - NOT lazy, the POITN WAS to compare the factory presents - that have the same engine, because that highlights HARDWARE differences int eh signal chain. Seriously you just didnt get the point of the vid at all did you.

@@paulmapp8306 Factory presets don't highlight hardware differences. They highlight choices made on the EQ profile FOR THE FACTORY PRESET of each instrument. If, as you said before, that you could have made them sound identical, then the effect of any hardware differences would be purely academic. It would be like comparing camera lenses based only on how their focus adjustment was set at the factory or right out of the box. "This one looks blurry." "That one seems sharper up close." Who does that?

@@wulf67 Sorry dude - you completely wrong in this case. THEY ARE THE SAME FACTORY PRESET, USNG THE SAME ENGINE, WITH THE SAME SETTINGS... are you actually not aware of that? They are NOT two different factory presents, they are exactly the same. Same code, same settings, same engine... THATS what made the comparison achievable in the first place the ONLY thing different is the signal path POST sound engine.,... ie amps, DACS. even jack sockets.

not without actually seeing the problem which you have resolved. best guess is you accidentally adjusted the key range for zone 1. Its not difficult to do that actually - though wouldn't happen unless you went into program edit.

I love my RD but also happen ''5 times a years maby'' i have to restart keyboard since it's just not working. Still the best piano i found.

Workflow is very similar, but Fantom has more of it. Capability wise, Fantom has the workstation bits (sequencer, drum machine, sampler etgc) as well as a VA synth engine - complete with the models found on the Julpiter X. The Fantom 8 has the same PHA5 keybed as the RD2000. The major differences, the Hammond models on the RD are better than the Fantom at preset (its coming but currently its PCM romper based organs only) . the editability of the supernatural EPs is much deeper on the RD than Fantom. Not surprisingly the RD is the better Piano based instrument (including EPs, Organs, Clavs etc) but the Fantom is better for synth stuff and workstation tasks, and with more capability as a controller.

If you were still considering moving to the Fantom from the RD, I’m pretty sure you could get pretty close to the general tone of the RD. The Fantom has an EQ that can be set and saved for the keyboard as a whole. I would not be surprised if just a slight bass cut and maybe a very slight treble boost would pretty much level these out. The EQ is saved globally and would be in place every time you switched the Fantom on. I don’t know for sure this will get you 100%, but I have watched pretty much everything on these boards while I’m saving my pennies. I doubt very much that the differences are at the sample level, as they would have reused the same samples.

To be fair - playing guitar for 35 years gave me an advantage. I understand chord theory, and progressions. I forced myself to spend the first 6 months JUST learning scales, fingering, and some left hand improvement exercises along with getting to know the "pattern" of the keys so I could hit a note blind. Ive let that bit slacken off a bit now, but I do force myself back every so often.

You dont know the half of it lol. Its kind of evolved.... There is a 3rd tier you cant quite see, with a Legend EXP Hammond Module, a Novation Peak and a Virus Ti2.... Thats my live rig for an 80s project - but I dont always take that 3rd tier to other projects, if I dont need the out and out synth stuff (the Fantom can do plenty on its own for most general things). I always take the legend if I need organs though. There is another 4th tier on shelving for home use only - with a Deep Mind 12 Desktop, a Roland TR8s and a Squarp Pyramid midi sequencer.....those are just for fun.